"competing against was sunsets and dysentery." I've been chuckling through this whole post as I read it in a waiting room, much to two other people's annoyance!
Super clear advice - much appreciated. I'm intentionally working on my endings, specifically writing more endings that are fully completed and fleshed out. The best editors I've worked with have moved sections of my writing around to create stronger endings. They've often uncovered elements of a strong ending in a different section of my writing, and moving to the end. I was horrified at first, incredibly guarded & sensitive about my initial endings. But the finished product has always been significantly better after their edits. After about 6-10 edits, my pieces were ready to be released in the world. This lesson has affirmed that - thank you.
Ah! That's so true. I should have mentioned that. How at first working with editors can feel defensive. But exactly, every time I have, it has made whatever I was working on better. Especially when you find the right editor. I am very glad the lesson helped.
this course was amazing! i think I've never seen a better instructor than you. ugh! i know I've told you the same thing so many times through this course but yes this course is quite remember able and helpful.
question: can I read this course again and again? will there ever be a paywall on this course?
Yay! So glad you enjoyed it. And yes, this course will always remain free. We might adapt it into a book or something to see, but this version will exist forever and I'll provide some info on that in tomorrow's final post
What helps me with rejections is being a digital hoarder. Do I have enough lines in my spreadsheet? No? submit more. Do I have rejections this month to add to my bedpostnotchbelt thing? no? SUBMIT MOAR.
I have yet however figured out how to tell what editors want, not from the fact that I get rejected, or from reading the lit mags (which I do religiously and I think gives me an edge over say, people sending stories to poetry mags, or people not saying "SADFISH" at the end of a cover letter) but from what they choose of my work to publish.
Even though I send work that I think matches, I have just as frequently said, "Didn't see that one coming" as much as I've said, "Awww yeah, thats the one I thought would get picked."
also my acceptance rate is probably the size of a pin that maybe one angel can sit on, my rejection rate is probably a maw that could swallow the solar system. Dunno, gonna go look at my spreadsheet with my dragon goodies. brb.
I know. I am often surprised by the poems lit mags choose over ones I really like. But ever since I started using Shannan's tracker in Lesson 9 and organizing my writing more. I've had a lot more success. But especially with big mags, there are so many different reasons. The final culling for style can happen after it's been churned through a few rounds of less experienced editors. That's why I try to focus on making the story universally appealing from the get-go and have it pan out as it progresses in a certain style that might better fit a specific lit mag's style
Damn Benjamin, I honestly prefer reading your writing advice to literally anything by Haruki Murakami. Fuck that guy 😂
Also, I would like to add another reason for reading past the first lines of a story, and that is that when you read it, you want to befriend the author/characters. You just want to hang out and shoot the shit. I imagine us going around saving horses and smashing IPA bottles, having a hell of a good time 😊
Hahaha thank you. Seriously, Kafka on the Shore is the only book I chucked across the room when I finished it. Just can't. And yes, that's great advice.
I've gotten some good advice from paying an editor to look at a story. Some stories I've re written entirely, some I've just tweaked. The first time I got feedback and a list of suggested lit mags to submit the story to, the first place ended up being the very first place to publish my work.
I did have one lit mag trash a story that I had paid for feedback. It was just mean, and cruel. Like they ripped apart every word, sentence, all of it.
Normally, when I've paid for feedback/editing, I always thank said editor. In this case, I really had to restrain myself because what I *REALLY* wanted to do was to respond with a link to Taylor Swift's "Mean" video and the clip on YouTube when she won a Grammy for the song.
I'm actually a member of the EFA (Editorial Freelancer's Asssociation), from my days of back of the book indexing and I keep forgetting to find someone through them.
Some nice nuggets in this amongst the welcome wise-assery. Your suggestion to print out a piece to do at least one editing pass on paper is a good one, especially for the many Screen Babies who have it hammered into their heads not to "waste paper." Those trees are dead anyway. Once I get a "finished" draft I print it out and have at it. Helps to see how crappy it is and how much work is left.
And yes, final lines and how you wrap things up can put your work over the top. Short stories especially are all about the ending.
This was all great. Thanks so much. Yeah, sunsets and dysentery, the whole death thing, or just the idea that whatever we're writing about, it's a story about not dying. My big thing is the rejection anxiety. This was well done, thorough, much needed, and hugely appreciated.
Thank you. And I know, it's tough. I have found that by submitting to a lot of places per piece, rejections sting a bit less. But when I submit one piece to one or two places the rejection compounds because I feel like I'm doomed to take that piece back into the cycle again
This whole course has been so great. I've joked about the swearing and the spreadsheets, and it's true, I do love them, but really, you folks are creating something special here. Thank you so much.
From what I'm reading in the comments, I realize I have no idea how to work with an editor: where to find them? (ok, now I have ONE place), what are reasonable rates? How to assess if we're working well together (too nice might be a bad sign, if it's not going well, am I being defensive/difficult or is it not the right editor for me?...). So that might be an idea for a future lesson?
I have a "go limp" policy with editors. Basically, I take whatever they say without thinking defensively about my work, consider it, and then take or leave things. That was a big thing I learned. That just because an editor says something doesn't mean you have to change it. It's more of a relationship.
"So far in this course, I’ve beaten that horse to death, learned how to do CPR on a horse, performed said CPR until said horse sprung back to life, then beat it to death again. So, let’s give it some peace.
This was super useful. Alot of tricks I was using without really realizing but helps to have more framing so I can do them more intentionally.
Gentle note that cluster b disorders have some of the highest stigma and it leads to trauma and not getting care. Most folks don't know that sociopath is pulled from ASPD (anti social personality disorder) which is a long pathologies way of folks typically w a ton of trauma trying to survive in a system trying to kill them and typically everything they do including things we do all the time being read as dangerous, whether it is or not. We can make funny insulting jokes w out ableist language
Thank you for pointing this out. I admit, I hadn't thought of it, but when you put it this way I totally understand and will be more careful in the future.
"competing against was sunsets and dysentery." I've been chuckling through this whole post as I read it in a waiting room, much to two other people's annoyance!
Haha, totally worth it.
Super clear advice - much appreciated. I'm intentionally working on my endings, specifically writing more endings that are fully completed and fleshed out. The best editors I've worked with have moved sections of my writing around to create stronger endings. They've often uncovered elements of a strong ending in a different section of my writing, and moving to the end. I was horrified at first, incredibly guarded & sensitive about my initial endings. But the finished product has always been significantly better after their edits. After about 6-10 edits, my pieces were ready to be released in the world. This lesson has affirmed that - thank you.
Ah! That's so true. I should have mentioned that. How at first working with editors can feel defensive. But exactly, every time I have, it has made whatever I was working on better. Especially when you find the right editor. I am very glad the lesson helped.
this course was amazing! i think I've never seen a better instructor than you. ugh! i know I've told you the same thing so many times through this course but yes this course is quite remember able and helpful.
question: can I read this course again and again? will there ever be a paywall on this course?
Yay! So glad you enjoyed it. And yes, this course will always remain free. We might adapt it into a book or something to see, but this version will exist forever and I'll provide some info on that in tomorrow's final post
What helps me with rejections is being a digital hoarder. Do I have enough lines in my spreadsheet? No? submit more. Do I have rejections this month to add to my bedpostnotchbelt thing? no? SUBMIT MOAR.
I have yet however figured out how to tell what editors want, not from the fact that I get rejected, or from reading the lit mags (which I do religiously and I think gives me an edge over say, people sending stories to poetry mags, or people not saying "SADFISH" at the end of a cover letter) but from what they choose of my work to publish.
Even though I send work that I think matches, I have just as frequently said, "Didn't see that one coming" as much as I've said, "Awww yeah, thats the one I thought would get picked."
also my acceptance rate is probably the size of a pin that maybe one angel can sit on, my rejection rate is probably a maw that could swallow the solar system. Dunno, gonna go look at my spreadsheet with my dragon goodies. brb.
I know. I am often surprised by the poems lit mags choose over ones I really like. But ever since I started using Shannan's tracker in Lesson 9 and organizing my writing more. I've had a lot more success. But especially with big mags, there are so many different reasons. The final culling for style can happen after it's been churned through a few rounds of less experienced editors. That's why I try to focus on making the story universally appealing from the get-go and have it pan out as it progresses in a certain style that might better fit a specific lit mag's style
hah, so funny -- anddd educational !
Yeah. Last full lesson. Wanted to make people laugh one last time before I go back to my content pit at chill subs to fight on
Damn Benjamin, I honestly prefer reading your writing advice to literally anything by Haruki Murakami. Fuck that guy 😂
Also, I would like to add another reason for reading past the first lines of a story, and that is that when you read it, you want to befriend the author/characters. You just want to hang out and shoot the shit. I imagine us going around saving horses and smashing IPA bottles, having a hell of a good time 😊
Hahaha thank you. Seriously, Kafka on the Shore is the only book I chucked across the room when I finished it. Just can't. And yes, that's great advice.
I've gotten some good advice from paying an editor to look at a story. Some stories I've re written entirely, some I've just tweaked. The first time I got feedback and a list of suggested lit mags to submit the story to, the first place ended up being the very first place to publish my work.
I did have one lit mag trash a story that I had paid for feedback. It was just mean, and cruel. Like they ripped apart every word, sentence, all of it.
Normally, when I've paid for feedback/editing, I always thank said editor. In this case, I really had to restrain myself because what I *REALLY* wanted to do was to respond with a link to Taylor Swift's "Mean" video and the clip on YouTube when she won a Grammy for the song.
Oof, yeah I don't buy feedback from lit mags. Only if I know the editors. It's much better to find a solid freelancer and develop a relationship.
I'm actually a member of the EFA (Editorial Freelancer's Asssociation), from my days of back of the book indexing and I keep forgetting to find someone through them.
constructive and concise, tyty!
you're welcome!
Some nice nuggets in this amongst the welcome wise-assery. Your suggestion to print out a piece to do at least one editing pass on paper is a good one, especially for the many Screen Babies who have it hammered into their heads not to "waste paper." Those trees are dead anyway. Once I get a "finished" draft I print it out and have at it. Helps to see how crappy it is and how much work is left.
And yes, final lines and how you wrap things up can put your work over the top. Short stories especially are all about the ending.
Totally agree. I'm always so disappointed when a story fails to stick the landing
This was all great. Thanks so much. Yeah, sunsets and dysentery, the whole death thing, or just the idea that whatever we're writing about, it's a story about not dying. My big thing is the rejection anxiety. This was well done, thorough, much needed, and hugely appreciated.
Thank you. And I know, it's tough. I have found that by submitting to a lot of places per piece, rejections sting a bit less. But when I submit one piece to one or two places the rejection compounds because I feel like I'm doomed to take that piece back into the cycle again
this was immensely helpful, thank you!
Happy to hear it!
This whole course has been so great. I've joked about the swearing and the spreadsheets, and it's true, I do love them, but really, you folks are creating something special here. Thank you so much.
From what I'm reading in the comments, I realize I have no idea how to work with an editor: where to find them? (ok, now I have ONE place), what are reasonable rates? How to assess if we're working well together (too nice might be a bad sign, if it's not going well, am I being defensive/difficult or is it not the right editor for me?...). So that might be an idea for a future lesson?
Thanks again!
I have a "go limp" policy with editors. Basically, I take whatever they say without thinking defensively about my work, consider it, and then take or leave things. That was a big thing I learned. That just because an editor says something doesn't mean you have to change it. It's more of a relationship.
Great work and I love the fucking raccoons, horses & that other humor as well.
thank you! we're looking into different formats to present this course and I'm like...OK so what about the raccoons? Gotta keep the raccoons in there
Thank you so, so much for all of your work and insight throughout this course. I’ve saved every lesson and I know I’ll turn to them again and again.
I'm very happy to hear it. Hopefully soon we'll have it in a neater easiily navigated format
"So far in this course, I’ve beaten that horse to death, learned how to do CPR on a horse, performed said CPR until said horse sprung back to life, then beat it to death again. So, let’s give it some peace.
"Be free, horse. "
I LOVED this!!
haha YES! Thank you. Love when my random jokes land
This was super useful. Alot of tricks I was using without really realizing but helps to have more framing so I can do them more intentionally.
Gentle note that cluster b disorders have some of the highest stigma and it leads to trauma and not getting care. Most folks don't know that sociopath is pulled from ASPD (anti social personality disorder) which is a long pathologies way of folks typically w a ton of trauma trying to survive in a system trying to kill them and typically everything they do including things we do all the time being read as dangerous, whether it is or not. We can make funny insulting jokes w out ableist language
Thank you for pointing this out. I admit, I hadn't thought of it, but when you put it this way I totally understand and will be more careful in the future.